Show Notes
This episode we’re joined by an extra special guest, Haruka Aoki. Haruka (she/they) is a queer Japanese artist, author and illustrator of children’s books based in Queens, New York City. Their narrative artwork, which has appeared in New York Times and the Washington Post, aims to inspire individuals with both wit and sincerity as their hand drawn characters engaged with the world around them growing up.
In this episode we talk about:
- Haruka’s pivot from corporate life to exploring art
- Mental health in today’s workplace
- Their background and family experience growing up
- Haruka dives into their world of illustration and the inspiration behind their characters
- Exploring their latest book, Fitting In (fittinginbook.com)
You can find Haruka at:
- Website: https://harukaaoki.com/
- Instagram: @thecosmicharuka
You can follow me at:
- Website: https://yellowglitterpodcast.com
- Instagram: @stevenwakabayashi
- YouTube: @stevenwakabayashi
- Subscribe to my weekly newsletter: mindfulmoments.substack.com
Show Transcript
Haruka Aoki: The parents, they stay in the ocean realm. They always are. For instance, riding a fish in the ocean. Uh, they have what is called a shell phone. That’s amazing. So when we talk to each other, that’s amazing. They’re talking via shell. And I actually, in the first panel, I’m flying on the bird, so I think there, there’s a lot of bird slash eagle, uh, symbolism in the United States.
And so I saw myself leaving the water, just Japan, the island, and going, uh, into the sky or in this different realm. Yeah. And so as my parents, um, stay in the water, I then turn into that bird and I’m always, uh, surrounded by air or bird imagery.
Steven Wakabayashi: Hi everyone. My name is Steven Wakabayashi and you’re listening to Yellow Glitter Mindfulness Through the Eyes and Soul of Queer Asian Perspectives. This episode, we’re joined by an extra special guest, Haah Aki Haah. Ahi is a queer Japanese artist, poet, and author illustrator of Children’s Book A in Queens, New York City.
Their narrative artwork, which has appeared in New York Times and the Washington Post aims to inspire individuals with both wit and sincerity as their hand drawn characters engaged with the world around them growing up, often unsure of where home would be next. Haah found and continues to find comfort in nature and community, a constant starting point in their work by exploring the metaphysical realm in their artistic practice.
They hope to provoke a sense of interconnectedness and provide an accessible space to provide and heal as a collective. Haah received her BA from Brown University and her MS from PR Institute. She often feels deeply grateful to be an Earthling , and loves to frequent the universe in her meditations.
Welcome to Yellow Glitter.
Haruka Aoki: Hello. Thank you for having me.
Steven Wakabayashi: Thank you for being on and really excited to have you. I haven’t really seen Earthling in a long time and I love it. It just puts it in perspective. There’s so much around us, this beautiful galaxy, I think they just discovered. Did you see the news report?
They discovered more things behind our galaxy, but just like right behind it. And they were, yeah, because telescopes right? You see directly in front of you, but you don’t see exactly what’s behind you. And so I was reading this article, I think I found it through Twitter this past week. Mm-hmm. of just discovering more behind the galaxy that we were looking at.
Just it was sitting on the backside of it.
Haruka Aoki: So wonderful .
Steven Wakabayashi: I was like, yeah, that happened.
Haruka Aoki: Wonderful. Yeah. That reminds me of this. Card, which I once pulled, where the jewels, the bag of jewels is behind the character and the character is looking forward and looking a bit sad, but there’s a huge bag of jewels behind them.
Steven Wakabayashi: That is funny. Okay, so if I pulled that, what does that mean?
Haruka Aoki: I don’t know. Oh, . I dunno. I think it was like, um, it was definitely a message of, hey, yes, you’re kind of looking in the wrong place. What has been within you this whole time or behind you? Um, and actually I, when that card came up, I don’t know too much about taro, but when that card came up for me, I remember resonating with it so much and I thought, oh, those bag of jewels is, um, that’s art for me.
Art has been within me this whole time and I had been neglecting it. Oh, that’s deep. . .
Steven Wakabayashi: That is deep. And why don’t we just start there. We had chatted a little bit before to talk about topics and just like you said, art was always behind you. Mmm. , I think. Mm-hmm. , the one thing that came up during your talk, and I deeply resonated too, was about this change and transition your life to maybe center this art within your life, departing from your corporate life to other part of you.
And I just wanna ask for such a big change, and so many people are oftentimes looking to align that inner self with the outside self, what catalyze that event?
Haruka Aoki: Hmm. Well the first thing is, um, the workplace. Initially really did not fit with me, and I knew that immediately, actually, like by the second day I was like, uh oh, what did I get myself into?
And it was a high paying job and I thought, you know what? I, I need to give this a try. Um, and I kept on saying that until it literally hurt to be there every day. So I had waited just a bit too long, uh, tried to harmonize for a bit too much. And yeah, towards the end I was working so, so hard and I was not really happy there.
I could tell that my heart was kind of fading and so, Actually, I think it’s important to note that my job, uh, I had my role as an art director at a big company. And so from the outside it looks like, oh, well you still get to do artistic things and be creative. But for me it was like, no, I just pull photos from Getty Images, cool.
And um, just work within a world of pixels, um, and tire myself out. I really felt at one point that instead of being a human and having like literal blood flow through my body, I felt like I had pixels floating through my body. It felt very unnatural. And so when the pandemic happened, initially I think there was a slowdown and.
People who worked in offices like me were able to enjoy that. And then there was a huge rush of just work, work, work, work, work. Uh, any time of the day, you are expected to be at your desk. And that was very hard for me. Um, of, so that’s one thing, the workplace. And then on top of that, there was ding, ding, ding, the abusive manager.
So that was so hard. Um, I had always tried to work well with people and when someone, uh, especially your own manager and supervisor has some other agenda, , it’s really difficult to match, uh, their needs and expectations that change every single day. So I knew, okay. I need a break. I can’t, I can’t just keep on doing this for anymore, anymore days, anymore months.
So that is when I took that leave, that was probably the best decision I had ever made. And of course, as someone who is a people pleaser and like harmonizer, I was very afraid to just quit. And so here I am, like, like, oh, there’s a, there’s a leave of absence option. Okay. Like, let me take that. And it was the perfect thing for me because I could, uh, allow myself to take a break from work, um, and also still get paid.
That was important for me. And then on top of that, I got the. to do a whole therapy course, and that was fantastic. So in a way, I feel like I had joined this company in order to get those benefits at the end so I could truly, truly rest and understand how that feels.
Steven Wakabayashi: So I tremendously with your decision to leave work to it was definitely something that I had experienced in the workplace and I saw that you were also at at agencies , it sometimes gets so toxic with just deadlines, meetings, client demands, and I often find that, and what’s crazy too is we’re doing creative work, right?
Yes. And yet we struggle so hard to center and give people the space to be. And it turns into this production heavy kind of industrialized setting for the creative work. And at least for myself, where I really struggled was I just this, this looming dread of, well, if I don’t perform, I’m gonna get fired.
Yeah. Yeah. This fear and that fear ran so much of my life. And I’m just curious for you, was there something that kept you there in terms of whether it’s a fear or this narrative, and I’m wondering was the move and shift away really healing?
Haruka Aoki: I’m just having all of these emotions and past experiences circle around me as you speak about your experience.
It was really, really tough, that transition from such a fast paced, as you say, industrialized process, churning out ideas and projects every single day at a fast paced to then transitioning to, uh, you can do whatever you want today or you think of the projects you wanna do. That was a really hard transition for me.
Um, I was so used to receiving projects, uh, getting assignments from other people that when all of that was taken away, uh, I was actually initially shocked, like, what, what do I do? So I think going into that transition, I was so ready to heal. I was like, let this healing happen. And I’m just like opening my arms to, to glowing and glittering and, um, I was surprised when that healing didn’t just magically happen and it was something that I actually had to work through.
Um, it is, I think, surprising when we have the time and energy and space to heal and to calm down. But then we realize, like I did, I don’t know how to do that. Actually. , I have envisioned myself truly to work, work, work and produce, produce, produce that I forgot how to rest, heal. So when I took that five month break from work, I learned to do that again, and I am still learning.
It’s an ongoing process.
Steven Wakabayashi: Yeah, absolutely. And it, it just seems that so much to our journey. It it, I wanna get back to your break a little bit on where you focus on mental health, but just to touch on what you said and respond it, it just seems that the most important messages to hear in life are sometimes the most difficult. And sometimes all we have to do is surrender to the experience. Yeah. Is that resonating with you?
Haruka Aoki: Oh yes. Surrendering is so hard when we have learned to control and I think letting go of that control is, it feels uncomfortable even now as I think about it. And lately I’ve been getting this one card, in this deck that I use.
Uh, it’s an Oracle deck that my friend made. I’ve been getting this character card that is the drunken sailor. So this character is topsy turvy. There was some throw up coming out of his mouth. They are kind of sideways bawling, and I have gotten that card so many times this month and I’m just like, I, I have to release even more like I have been surrendering universe.
Like, what, what do you want me to give more of? And yeah, I, I, I am definitely a to-do list person. I like getting things done and I am a Google Calendar freak. And so I just, I know that I work well that way. However, I am still learning to use these gifts and talents as, as tools and not make them kind of overwhelm me.
Steven Wakabayashi: Yeah, for sure. And going back to your trip to better understand your mental health, I’m curious what came up for you during that time, whether it’s something you struggled. Really to accept it, be more aware of, it seems that it was very healing for that break and that big chunk of time away from work.
I’m just curious what was coming up for you then?
Haruka Aoki: Hmm. Well, I should say that this was a very group therapy heavy course and it was very much like going to school again. And so I had a schedule every day and for the more intense weeks, I think I was doing about 20 hours of therapy a week. And that is a lot.
Um, especially not having done any therapy before that, being put into a course with 20 weeks, or sorry, 20 hours. Of therapy a week and working on yourself was so shocking. But one of the most wonderful things in that course was that I got to meet other people around my age. So in their thirties and forties, dealing with very similar experiences that I had and also similar emotions.
Even if those experiences were different, perhaps it’s an issue with a parent or an issue with their identity issues at work, whatever it was, being in that group atmosphere and a very loving, understanding atmosphere was especially healing. And I had truly never done that kind of therapy before. Um, I had only done life coaching, so I had received life coaching classes so much about self improvement.
What do you want to do in life? How can you succeed? Which I think is wonderful that I didn’t know that I needed to reflect on the inside. And I think one of the things that came up in the workplace for me was that, uh, that feeling of not being needed or, uh, not being respected, taken care of. And I actually had a similar experience, those emotions back when I was in college.
So I, um, I had unfortunately experienced some abuse then in college, and it was untreated. I hadn’t asked for help. Then I really bottled things up and I had thought that, um, oh, you know what? I, I dealt with it. That, that’s in the past. We’re done here, ready to move on. However, I had left it truly untreated.
And so it, those behaviors, those feelings of, uh, not feeling loved or the behaviors of disengaging, pretending that things are okay, all those things came back up this time in this toxic work environment. So I knew then that was the red, a big red flag for me. When those behaviors came up, I thought, oh, I did these, these same things when I was 18.
They’re coming back again. I need to look for help here. Um, and I wanted at that time, When I had just gone on break, I had no idea that I was gonna quit right after my break. No, no, no reason to. I thought I’ll just, you know, I’ll be all good in five months and ready to go back a new person. So when I started I thought, okay, let me use these five months.
Let me explore, uh, these behaviors that, that come up, these feelings that come up. And I had left untreated before, so let’s, let’s do that. And that’s why I, uh, went on this mental health journey.
Steven Wakabayashi: One, I’m proud of you for stepping. I don’t want the focus to be about the stepping away, but stepping into your passion, stepping into what you’re really excited to do, and.
I wanna go into a little bit about your Asian identity too. Um, one, what is your cultural ethnic background? And then two, do you think that also had anything to do with navigating this balance of corporate life versus going after what your true passions are?
Haruka Aoki: A hundred and like 20%. Yes. So I’m Japanese and I lived in Japan until I was only three, and from then on I went to Hong Kong and then to New York.
So I think it was when I was seven, I came to New York and Oh yeah, definitely. My Japanese background has a lot to do. With how I see the workplace. Um, I really saw it as a goal since I was a kid. My father was a banker, Japanese salary man, so that a hundred percent, um, showed me Oh wow, that’s what stability looks like.
And he also made it look very cool. He’s a very fashionable guy, my dad. And so this was also during the nineties, so he had the Gordon Gecko style, like suspenders, and we got the Aires colorful ties, and he just looked like, you know, what success really looked like. And I was really proud of him too, uh, because he grew up very poor.
And I think I understand now as an adult, oh, that’s why he really wanted that stability. That was really important for him. And he was able to achieve that. And so I really had him as this role model figure. And even up until my mid twenties, my goal was to surpass my father. I was like, well, dad, you did that in your thirties.
I’m gonna do it in my twenties. Um, as if it’s them competition . And so I, I was able to get that success early on. And my partner is, um, so funny and loving and is like, well, you know, you, you won capitalism, honey, in your twenties. Like you, you got that six figure job. And you know, you got that stability hella early.
So, I like his viewpoint, but . But I definitely was going for that as my goal. And having achieved that, I kind of waved that success in front of my dad being like, look, dad, look, look, look. And I was actually pretty surprised in terms of how, uh, how he took that initially. He was like, this is great. I’m so proud of you.
Uh, likeability, stamp of approval. But then, um, as he saw me working more on my art, he was like, oh, this is so great. Like, can I get a print of this? Like, can I pay you to, to do this, um, to, to print this artwork out? And he was way more excited about that. And what’s interesting is that he too is a wonderful artist.
He is so talented, and he was, uh, like the president of the cultural committee or something in college and really into, uh, music, art culture. And so I could see that, oh, I kind of ended, ended up like him in terms of success in my twenties. But oh, I also see this big gaping hole in my dad now that I didn’t see before.
And I thought, oh, I don’t, I don’t really want to end up like that. And yet I have, um, this big opportunity to, to create that, that life that I really, really want. And explore, uh, truly what I was meant to do on Earth, not what I could do or what other people are telling me that I should do. So definitely since I was a child, uh, I looked up to that successful worker figure for sure.
Steven Wakabayashi: So I think, I think you, going back to your story about your father, I think it’s, it’s almost, it’s, it’s beautiful and sad to see such a creative aspect within him after so many years and realizing that maybe that was a part of his identity, that he also tampered. And I also see the same thing in my mom of so many things that she’s like really good at.
But uh, so she cuts hair for a living. She’s a beautician. And especially as people who immigrate here in America. I did a lot of reading about Asian American history over the past year, and one thing that was really eye-opening to see was the history of Asians within America, especially for Asian American immigrants.
And so much of the immigration had been tied to job financial success, the ability to look good on paper and what was the most eye-opening thing for me, at least in reading a lot of the history. Building compassion for a lot of these behaviors that were institutionalized, not as a culture just within our family, but as a culture within our larger immigrant diaspora, especially here within America.
And you know, I think the reckoning is , realizing that we had lost probably a ton of really exciting career potentials and so many things, all these other folks, especially Asians, who immigrated to America could have done. But these systems forced so many people to have to be good on paper, be a doctor, be a lawyer, you know, they were some of the first people who were admitted right into the country because there was a huge deficit in a lot of this talent.
And at least for myself, the longest. I struggled with the Asian culture and identity that pushed a lot of this to me. I was trying to be a doctor for the longest time. Damn. And
yeah. Yeah. And um, and I held a lot of resentment towards it after having lost all these years, but I realized that it’s all a part of, I think it’s easy to think of it as a microcosm, but oftentimes there’s a big macrocosm that’s a part of institutionalizing equity, institutionalized culture even. And.
Yeah. At least this awareness has been bringing me a semblance of healing and awareness of how we can move forward and how we can move forward is, I think, like your story and narrative of really chasing after, what is that, what is that passion of yours? What is that thing that is calling you? Almost like a siren, right?
Like it’s just back into your hall and it’s just, to me it’s this,
this force deep within that’s so important to cherish. Yeah.
Haruka Aoki: Truly. Truly. And it’s, it is sometimes hard to find them. It really feels like, uh, a tiny pearl. In a, in many, many layers of mud. And sometimes you doubt like, oh, is there even a pearl in here? Like, am I gonna find it because I’ve been looking for so long?
And so to just keep on reaching, keep on believing. And so when you actually hold or find that pearl and hold it in your hands, it’s, it’s the best feeling.
Steven Wakabayashi: That must be hard, right? Going day in, day out. Sometimes it’s finding, having to find multiple pearls, you know? You found that one. Where’s the next one?
Haruka Aoki: Yes. I, I really love what you said, Steven, because I think a lot of people talk about finding that one thing, and gosh, why does it have to be one? It could be. 80, it can be five, it could be whatever you want it to be. And I think that is so important. We live in such a binary, uh, structured world. And as we can see, whenever we go outside in nature or have really spiritual or loving experiences, it’s never, it never feels structure or we never have to choose between good and bad.
Yes and no. It’s so much rich complexity and I would, I would love to bring more of that in to our daily lives.
Steven Wakabayashi: Yeah. And what keeps you going there? It’s not easy. Is there anything that keeps you going, coming back, showing up?
Haruka Aoki: Oh, yes, it’s. It’s the connection, the energy between two people is amazing. It’s so, so beautiful. Uh, sometimes when I create art, share it, and it’s on a very public platform, I get these very magical emails.
Steven Wakabayashi: What? Mm-hmm. , what are some of them said?
Haruka Aoki: Imagine them like, yes. Yes. So I truly imagine them as like, uh, you know, sure, an email can just be an email, but to me it is a letter and a letter that is, it consists words, words that were chosen by one person and filled with emotion and feeling.
So to me, when I get those lovely emails from readers of my comics, viewers of my artworks, It is the best feeling. And the one that I remember the most is this wonderful library clerk who is a 79 year old person. And he sent me this beautiful letter, uh, after I had published this, uh, this illustrated poem in the New York Times about public libraries.
And he wrote to me saying, oh, I love libraries too. In fact, I work in one. And he actually signed his name backwards. So his name is, uh, it’s like Kevin, but he signed his name Neve. Uh, because apparently that’s like. A code that he shares with the kids that come to the library, that their true names are actually spelled backwards.
So they, yeah. So I signed my, my email back to him Accura, since that’s backwards of Haruka. Yeah. And those, those moments are what I love when I’m able to make those connections with people that I don’t even know, but we both are probably on the same page or, you know, kind of understanding each other on a very similar plane.
And that is what keeps me going.
Steven Wakabayashi: Yeah. That must be one. Sounds like a awesome librarian. and Yes. Two, going into your work. You do talk about really deep stories. Um, I was going through your website gathering at all your different projects, and I’m curious if there’s any project that stands out to you, particularly whether it spoke really deeply about a part of you, um, or once you headed out, you were like, oh yes, this pearl is out of me,
Is there anyone that come to mind that’s very memorable for you in that regard?
Haruka Aoki: There’s this one where a character, uh, is having a very difficult, difficult time, especially with their inner thoughts. And a rain cloud comes by and it’s raining really hard and this character. Feels this, this raindrop and realizes, gosh, this, this pain, the pain that this raindrop carries is so intense.
Um, and actually that character and the Rain Cloud end up becoming friends and they are able to heal together through some bowls of hardy soup. And that one I created when I was having such a difficult time with my inner thoughts and inner narrative. It’s very strict inner critic, so that one stands out the most to me.
And I also love trying, uh, to create new characters and new styles. And so that one I felt very happy about in terms of, uh, The character that I created for that, which is this lovely, quite handsome character with a magical hat and this beautiful cloak and some cute boots and they have one eye. Yeah, I, I like that character very much as well as their house.
I like the house that they live in. It’s very cozy
Steven Wakabayashi: And that’s definitely one thing that I noticed in your characters was they aren’t really gendered, they are these abstract beings. I’m just curious, is their intentionality behind them as you’re creating some of those characters for you.
Haruka Aoki: Yeah. I’m so glad you mentioned that.
Mm-hmm. , thank you Steven..
I think it’s, it’s my true consciousness probably speaking out in the form of art because I did not actually notice that until you told me. So I’m actually kind of glowing, processing, processing.
Steven Wakabayashi: Cause I was looking at your stuff on, you know, the ones from the New York Times and just stuff where you’re posting.
And I also have other friends who are illustrators, comics and a comic writers and, you know, they immediately go to just human forms of characters. Right. And I think you had one specifically around your, um, uh, health that you had drawn a comic for, but I think that was more of a manifestation of yourself in a physical.
But a lot of the stuff like, and the one you’re sharing right now too, I took a with the characters forming a friendship and also your latest work too. I couldn’t help but to notice how they were simply manifestations of a character rather than the physical manifestations that we oftentimes see within this physical world that we share, you know, as humans.
Yeah.
Haruka Aoki: Yes. And I think I am starting to become more drawn to that. I’m actually working on this pitch right now. It already made me cry twice writing and drawing it, because it’s about my long distance relationship with my parents and my parents. Uh, apparently they. They get, um, this wonderful ride from a fish deity.
I don’t know what that’s about, but that’s what they’re doing. And , um, I also in this comic turn into a bird and I had no idea that that, uh, that kind of storytelling was within me. But more and more I am drawn to spirituality as well as some of those, uh, older narratives in, in Japanese folklore.
Steven Wakabayashi: Yeah. And going back to what we had chatted about in the very beginning is sometimes the lessons that we need to hear are sometimes the most difficult ones to accept.
And there might be a beautiful narrative exploration self. Discovery, self healing as you tap into a lot of that ancestral teaching, ancestral being existing and yeah. Beautiful. I, I can, I can visualize it in my head right now. with there oftentimes depicted in media and these like scrolls, right? Where it’s like , it’s like, yes, but it’s just this beautiful, what I’m picturing my just what’s mes just beautiful calligraphy, brush strokes, characters and, but almost a, a, a rough abstraction to it too, where they teeter between this like physical world and the world of. The world of creation. Yeah. I, I won’t, I won’t spoil your pitch. I think there’s so, but I’m just so, I’m so, no, I was just so curious, like, where are they riding off to? What do the animals mean?
Yeah. Yeah.
Haruka Aoki: Yeah. Well, I, I want to, um, I can share a little bit where the parents, they stay in the ocean realm. They always are, for instance, riding a fish in the ocean. Uh, they have what is called a shell. That’s amazing. So when we talk to each other, that’s amazing. They’re, uh, talking via Shell. And I actually, in the first panel, I’m, I’m flying on the bird.
So I think there, there’s a lot. Bird slash eagle, uh, symbolism in the United States. And so I saw myself leaving the water, just Japan, the island, and going, uh, into the sky or in this different realm. Yeah. And so as my parents, um, stay in the water, I then turn into that bird and I’m always, uh, surrounded by air or bird imagery.
Steven Wakabayashi: Yeah, yeah. Did you watch recent recently, Wakanda forever, it came out.
Haruka Aoki: I haven’t yet, I’m so excited to.
Steven Wakabayashi: You should watch it because I don’t, I’m not gonna spoil it too much, but there is another civilization that is discovered underwater, and there is a very similar allegory in there as to what you’re sharing?
Yes.
Haruka Aoki: Ooh. Thank you..
Steven Wakabayashi: Like we’re on the cliff. Not gonna spoil it.
Haruka Aoki: Yes. Stop. Stop.
Steven Wakabayashi: Yeah. I think that’s, I think that’s beautiful and I’m really excited to see it when it comes out. It’s definitely resonating a lot with this narrative, especially as Asian immigrants or children of immigrants that some people say we’re often stuck in this third place.
We’re not home. We don’t feel at home as Asians, Asian immigrants here in America. Were in this third world that’s suspended in a way. Yes. Or were tolerated rather than celebrated. Accepted rather than push to success. And when it comes to, I think the fascinating part I’m always curious about is to guess yourself and your queer identity and what that self discovery and what that self journey has been like.
How has it been for you to embrace identity?
Haruka Aoki: It has been very freeing. Very freeing. And in a way it was a slow unfolding. So I think there is the, uh, often there is the narrative in pop culture of coming out or having bottled up so much inside and then finally being able to release or coming out of the closet. But for me it was a, a slow, slow unfurling.
I think even in my very first job at an ad agency, my first creative director, he gave me this name instead of Hudah. He said, Harry. And initially I was like, oh, like that’s kind of problematic. Um, like this, like why can’t you just say my name? But then I was like, let me reclaim this. I kind of like, Harry is, you know, it, it’s so, so, but it, it comes from Harold.
And I was like, Harold is kind of sexy. I like Harold. And so. There was that initial, like, you know, all, all like, my alarms going off like Harry, Harry, like, this is weird. Uh, my Asian self is going nuts. But then yeah, afterwards I was like, you know, um, Harry slash Herald as a name is kind of cool. And I think it was because it is often a male name, uh, that I loved it so much.
And that was kind of my first, wait a second moment. And that, uh, more and more, especially as I, uh, as I followed my, my artistic path, it has become easier to unfurl and unfold because I am truer to myself every day. . And another aha moment was when, uh, I was gifted these wonderful books called, uh, frog and Toad.
Uh, I think it’s by Arnold Lobel perhaps. And I was like, wait a second. This is like Harold, my, my character. Um, by the way, I’m towed if you have read the books. I’m towed. I’m a bit slower. Um, not as, uh, uh, easily, uh, loving and carefree as as frog, but I was so happy to see these two characters. It, they don’t say, uh, explicitly that they’re gay or they’re whatever gender.
Uh, they wear these wonderful, wonderful clothes. Um, I was like, wow, a frog and toed. Like I want, I like them a lot. And I could see that kind of relationship parallel in my own relationship with my partner. And by the way, he is definitely frog. Uh, so I thought, wow, this is so wonderful. Um, I, I didn’t know, uh, that I would relate so much to these characters, these children’s book characters, but I had been telling so many people, especially in my early twenties, that, gosh, I know for sure that I must have been this old gay guy in a previous life.
Like I a hundred percent know it cuz I’m, I’m immediately drawn to that. And so to then see the frog and toed characters. In real life illustrated what kind of house they live in, what kind of things they do. I thought, oh, this is it. This is, this is me. And for me, I really appreciate the term queer, the reclaiming of it, the abstractness of it.
Uh, I think it’s quite a big and colorful umbrella that can hold many identities within it. So I really appreciate that. And I just absolutely love, uh, deciding who I want to be when I wake up. The, the non-binary is just like, it just fills my soul. And so when I, uh, yesterday I ended up, uh, going more glam.
Like, uh, I was thinking like opera ski glam and just created this image in my head and found things in my closet that would match that. And that was fabulous. And sometimes I want to, uh, create more of that kind of frog and towed character. And I do have, um, some of my father’s jackets tailored, uh, for these moments.
So I absolutely love to play dress up and creating an identity that way. Yeah,
Steven Wakabayashi: I think it’s fascinating. One, this , I was on like a really chaotic side of Twitter and some people started, like some illustrators did, like book covers. Frog and Toad should’ve actually been doing, and they created this illustrative cover, like, oh, frog and Frisky.
I was like, I was like, yeah, no. What’s ? People on Twitter are amazing, and I was laughing so hard.
Haruka Aoki: I’m gonna check that out later. I want to see that secret side
Steven Wakabayashi: Which one’s a bigger one? Was it? No, toad was a smaller one. Right? Frog’s a bigger one.
Haruka Aoki: I thought Toad was bigger.
Steven Wakabayashi: Well, there’s one that’s bigger.
Haruka Aoki: Frog is taller, but slimmer.
Steven Wakabayashi: Well, there’s one that’s like much taller, right? And then the one that’s like much smaller.
Haruka Aoki: Okay. Yeah. Frog. Mm-hmmm.
Steven Wakabayashi: The much smaller one was like on top of the bigger one. And they’re like going at it. And I was like, but wow, you should definitely, I don’t recall. I saw it on Twitter like about a year ago and I was like, yes, get it .
Haruka Aoki: Yes, yes. Gosh. So I’ll be getting that book.
Steven Wakabayashi: And I think maybe I’m just gonna cover, but it was, I forget. Um, and I think it’s funny that you talk about this frog as a character and how you really relate with it.
Going back to your illustration, I go back to the fact that frogs are also amphibian, right? Where they are many different identities, but also they can live a life underwater. They can also live a life above the water. Yes. They’re not one or the other, but they’re suspended almost in these two worlds.
Came from the water. Born from the water.
Haruka Aoki: Oh, love this. I feel like I’m in English class, like in literature class in high school. Just unpacking the text.
Steven Wakabayashi: Yeah. I was unpacking that. I was like, Ooh, maybe there’s something there. Spend it in these worlds. And now you’re, you’ve grown legs, arms,
Haruka Aoki: Yes.
Steven Wakabayashi: And the interesting thing too about frogs is realizing importance of just like where they come from, they also migrate into these like water pools of water to then burst and give babies little bobas. Yeah.
Yes. I think that’s beautiful. And yeah, I also, yeah. I relate to in so many ways. And, um, I think the interesting part right about intersectionality is also where does the Asian culture even layer in with all of this stuff? We have queer identity, we have the identity of being an American, we have identity of being Asian Yes.
And being Japanese. And I’m just curious, how has that experience been like with the intersectionality of being Japanese, being Asian and being queer?
Haruka Aoki: Oh, gosh, yes. It’s, it’s a lot to carry. But when you first asked me this question, I immediately thought of this memory I have when I first. Met an Asian American person.
Um, and I at the time thought of myself as Japanese. I actually didn’t know at all the history of Asian Americans or even the term Asian American. And I had thought, well, I had only, uh, spoken to people who looked Japanese and could speak Japanese or perhaps from another Asian culture and was able to speak whatever language, uh, that they were brought up with.
And so when I first met, uh, an American person who is Asian, and they did not speak the language of the country they were originally from, I was like, what, what this like, I didn’t know that. Um, This would be the case. Like there were people like this, and this was when I was a kid. Uh, everyone around me had spoken Japanese and looked Japanese.
And so it’s like, wow, gosh. Like I, I didn’t know that these people existed. Um, in my small world. And now understanding as a part of the Asian American community and as someone who is Japanese, someone who is queer, I realize, oh, okay. I do have a voice here that is quite unique and I can help even more people because of my intersectionality.
And by identifying in these many ways, I can help people in each, each culture, each identity, and hopefully. Make them feel less alone or feel more loved. Yeah. And I think I, I do want to note too, that being Japanese is, is something I want to point out because it is a huge privilege, especially in the United States, uh, as well as in Japan.
Uh, there is a big middle class there. It’s mostly peaceful. Um, and being a Japanese person here, uh, we, you know, because Japan and the United States, there are such allies, uh, but also because of World War ii, right. It’s very, very complicated. But I know for sure just even. Looking at my passport that is from Japan.
I know that that has huge, huge power. And so I think it’s a very complex thing to hold that privilege and also, uh, be okay being vocal as part of the Asian American community. Um, and as part of the immigrant community,
it’s, I think it’s just so, so important to actually talk about Japan’s history and what they have done to other nations, as well as the colonizer. It’s a very violent and truly evil, like disgusting. That that country’s government had done in the military. And it’s truly only just a generation or two ago that this happened.
And I think we don’t talk about that enough as part of the privilege and identity that we hold as Japanese people in the world.
Steven Wakabayashi: Why do you think we don’t talk about it as much?
Haruka Aoki: Hmm.
I mean, it is so brutal some of the things that the Japanese government and the military did, and it’s, it’s very scary, um, to come to terms with that kind of behavior. That kind of cruelty. And to own up to that is, I think, very scary, I guess for, for countries to do.
Um, and truly though, it, I, I wish, I wish I could hold, um, Japan, just hug all of Japan because there is so much trauma there, uh, so much done. Uh, because people were forced to do certain things. People were forced to go into war, work in certain jobs that they don’t want to. And so sometimes when I do go back to Japan, I, I see that violence, but it’s kind of, uh, it’s hidden.
It’s almost underground in the earth. There’s this very lovely, warm, sparkly blanket that just covers all the shit . Hmm. And I understand how it is so comfortable to, to be able to have the fresh water, the delicious fruits, the beautiful mountains, the fast trains. Like, oh, let’s focus on that. You know, it’s so great.
And the, the beautiful artwork, the hot springs, like sure, that’s wonderful. But yeah, I, there is just, even with my grandparents, uh, like we don’t talk about those years type of thing. And of course I respect that because they actually lived through. The trauma of war and survival. But I think the way to move forward is to not ignore, to push down.
It’s to lift those things up, share those feelings, talk about them with not just friends and family, but perhaps also people from other countries that are going through the same types of wars and sadness.
Steven Wakabayashi: Yeah. It’s like the need to clean a wound going deep into the wound so that it can heal and yeah, it’s, it’s also hard to have a reckoning with even like, why? There’s a lot of colonialization mentality too in Japan, and it goes back to the larger sphere of Right. All these countries, at many points within our history, we’re just scrambling so hard to fight and compete with another. And also the dipo of Americans, , the Eurocentric colonial mentality and all the things that it cause, and also generations of colonialization to build that into what it, um, right.
I think there are, uh, deep wounding across generations, across countries, across the world that we just all have yet to. I think we’ve written books about it, but even look at where America’s going with politics, some people are really struggling so hard with it to a point when they’re banning books, outlying education.
Right. And question for you is, why is this so important to remember and understand our history to you?
Haruka Aoki: Well, it is part of our dna whether we like it or not. And so I think that urge, uh, to continue to act in the way that we did is the, that will always be there. And even when you’re living with that, with that history, You actually get to decide as you an individual to, to change that path. And so I think it’s important to know where you came from, what happened in your histories, what are the things that your grandparents did not tell you?
And just collect tho that information really as data points and say, Hmm, I could probably continue that trauma and living, living with that, but uh hmm will that make my life a better will? Will that make my life better, other people’s lives better if I continue acting this way? And for me the answer is no.
And so I want to, uh, use that history. The truths, the hurt, the healing, the realness of it all. Hold, literally hold it in my hands and then form it into something else, form it, craft it into something that I think will be better for the world and then send it off, uh, for people to read to think about.
Steven Wakabayashi: Yeah, and the analogy that came in my mind around what you’re saying was the question of, well, can you describe water to a fish? Right? Going back to animal creatures. Um, and the funny thing too, of beings that can go in between, also water and air to experience these different worlds allows us to describe and put to words. Water is wet, air is light.
Gravity feels like this land, gravity feels like this in water. And to me, it, it seems like history is, and what I gathering and what you shared, history is almost these like spaces that we inhabit. And as we step out of it, power is to reflect what that space was like so that we can share that experience with others without having to be in that.
Haruka Aoki: Right. Exactly. And I am, what you just said reminds me also of, uh, first left our, our home. How that really helped me understand, wow, my home is just a very small part of the entire world. And to actually step out of it again, is such a privilege to be able to see a different perspective. And I think that’s why traveling is so important, to be vulnerable and open to new experiences and to see your previous home from another perspective, another lens is I think very important.
Steven Wakabayashi: Yeah. Beautiful. I’d love to talk a little bit more about your latest work, making a slow pivot. Um, you had recently published. And I’m gonna read a little bit of the summary that I was able to pull that I think is super cute and I’d love your you to share a little bit more about it, the summary goes in a world of circles square feels different in public squares, wears extra shapes to fit in, but pretending to be a circle all the time is hard work. Fitting in is a heartwarming, inclusive, and whimsical picture book about a square trying to fit into a world of circles. This book celebrates what makes everyone unique and special
When it comes to the book. So, in your words, aside from the summary, what, how would you describe it?
Haruka Aoki: It is, A book that, that I think the, the world needs. Um, it’s that feeling of, oh, I don’t, I don’t belong, or I feel really different and it’s so uncomfortable. And yet to, to hold that true emotion while remembering, oh, there’s just so much diversity and everyone’s trying to figure it out. So many identities and actually every single one of them can be all right.
And I wrote this picture book, I wrote and illustrated this picture book with my friend John Olson, who is a wonderful designer and art director, former, and he. Very involved in LGBTQ activism. So I know that he wrote and illustrated from his experience growing up as a gay person. And for me, I definitely, uh, thought about my experience as a Japanese person coming into the United States and feeling so different and just being so surprised at all the cultural differences and feeling that pressure to fit in.
And so I really want to, uh, yeah, we, John and I both really wanted to share that experience through this Character Square.
Steven Wakabayashi: Yeah. What inspired you to. Create these characters. We talked a little bit about these characters that you create are often not a humanoid , and in this one right, they take on, or these shapes, square circles come to life. I was just curious what, what , I find it so fascinating. I was like, oh my God, it makes total sense to me.
I’m just curious, there’s anything that inspired in creating these characters?
Haruka Aoki: Mm-hmm. Well, when we were thinking about our story, we knew that we wanted to create a story that was very similar to this, um, about acceptance, about loving yourself despite, uh, all the differences or comparisons that you might have.
And I think. We had also explored potentially a cactus, um, in, in this world of other plants and flowers and how this cactus felt very lonely and spiky and different. So that’s just another example of a story we were thinking about. But when it came to shapes, it was truly, uh, one of the basic things that we learned as children.
And we thought, oh, this might actually be even more accessible as a story if we played with shapes. And it may have even been one of those paper napkin drawings where we’re talking, and I’m just drawing a square and realizing that aha moment of wow, a circle fits in. Or square fits into a circle and there are these four extra shapes that come outta that.
What if, what if the square wore these extra shapes to pretend like they were a circle? So that’s how it came to be.
Steven Wakabayashi: I love that. I also like the potential opportunity to explore maybe a cactus, because what I saw TikTok, or trending on TikTok lately has been a lot of these, I dunno if you’ve seen it, but cactus plant owners who slice off a chunk of the cactus to put another cactus in.
And so they’re creating these new shapes and new ways of, you know, cactus manifesting itself in the physical realm. But in terms of almost like it, it quite literally is like the square you’re able to put on these parts. And it doesn’t only become the clothing. It quite literally. Infuses into them as a being, I think.
Wow. I was like, at least that’s what came up for me. I was like, wow. That’s, yeah. Yeah. It not only puts on these clothes, but it shapeshifts quite literally into what you.
Haruka Aoki: Definitely. Gosh, I, I feel I’m feeling that so hard right now. Yeah. Flashback to when I was 14, wearing like three layers of polos. Um, all with the collar popped up, literally changing my physical shape and outline.
Steven Wakabayashi: What was behind that. Why three polos?
Haruka Aoki: Oh, well, , I ended up going to a boarding school, and it was a very preppy boarding school. And that was actually my way of staying in the United States When I was 13. I, uh, my, my parents were going back to Japan. Well, the US is great.
I wanna be here. How can I stay here? And one of the ways, uh, is to go to boarding school. So I did, and I had, I was not prepared for the three layers of polos. Um, but there was a certain, look, a certain style brands as well, uh, that seemed to define what the sporting school experience was about. And I didn’t know anything about it, but, Since I am, I guess, a visual person, I thought, you know what, let me, let me try that out so I can maybe be more accepted.
Steven Wakabayashi: Hmm. And many layers to peel off too. Yeah.
Haruka Aoki: Yes.
Steven Wakabayashi: Yeah.
Yeah. I can’t imagine how tough that would be, especially going through school, going through transitions in your body, your life, your identity. And the only semblance of this, oh gosh, yeah. Familial anchor was going back and leaving,
Haruka Aoki: Right, right. It was, uh, back in the day of telephone times where you would punch like a one 800 number and a string of numbers after. And I remember very, very early in the morning or late at night, I would call my parents from the dormitory phone. Uh, it was a landline back then, and calling that telephone card, when I heard that distinct ring tone, that means, oh, you’re calling Japan.
I felt immediate relief. Like, oh, I’m home.
Steven Wakabayashi: So, two questions. Um, who is this book for and what do you hope to achieve? Going back to your book?
Haruka Aoki: Mm-hmm. This book is truly for, for everyone, and I mean this by saying any identity. Any age. I think we wrote this book with adults in mind as well. So it’s not just for the kids, but the adults perhaps reading to the kids.
And we want to make sure that people feel loved. I don’t think there’s enough of that message. Um, there’s so much messaging of should, should you have to do this or five steps to become a better human or whatever. But truly it’s, this book is about acceptance, so loving yourself. And the second question, was it, what do I hope to achieve?
Well, we hope that it. Well, it already has kind of grown its own legs, so we kind of like the parents of this book. We hope to see this book thrive and walk around the world. Being in many libraries and languages. We hope that the book can make people feel better and more left.
Steven Wakabayashi: That’s beautiful. And is there anything that’s inspiring you lately?
Haruka Aoki: So much. So much. I’ve been, uh, I’ve been opening myself to more experiences, new experiences, and I’ve been allowing myself to do more things because like we talked about, that inner critic is, Such a big voice in my head and they can take away a lot from, from my day to day. So I’ve been going to interesting, uh, like historical bars.
I’ve been, uh, I will be going to an artist studio later today and I also went to a musical, it was two weeks ago. And allowing myself these new, new experiences being, being a human, truly, and experiencing the world, it’s been giving me so much joy.
Steven Wakabayashi: And what is one lesson you want listeners to take away with?
Haruka Aoki: I would. Even when you are doubting yourself, the answer is always within you. So look deeply and ask kindly to yourself when you are confused, and take those deep breaths, look at those beautiful landscapes, and do whatever you need to do to be calm and then look inside. And whatever you need will be there waiting for you because gosh, are they patient.
They wait for us and love us so deeply. So yes, you can trust yourself.
Steven Wakabayashi: Beautiful, beautiful. And for those who want to connect with you, find you more of your work, how can they reach?
Haruka Aoki: So on Instagram, I am the cosmic haka, and I also have a website. It’s my name, haka aki.com.
Steven Wakabayashi: Beautiful. Beautiful. And for those listening, definitely check out’s website with lots and lots of, you’re a very prolific person.
Yeah. The work was just beautiful to go through and I appreciated just all these different facets of your identity that you vulnerably share. And I saw a lot of myself in it. Um, and so from the bottom of my heart, thank you for putting out your work, your story, who you are to the outside world, and really appreciate this conversation from.
And so with that, uh, yeah, any, any last notes, anything that you wanna leave with before we close?
Haruka Aoki: Well, thank you Steven as well. Like thank you for creating this space for us to talk and share. Um, it literally is creating, um, a space for healing for thousands of people. So thank you.
Steven Wakabayashi: Thank you. I embrace that.
And for listeners, hope stories resonated and yes, seconding, wherever you are, you have something special deep within Embrace It and find that pearl in that mind . And so with that, Thank you Haruka, and for everyone listening, I hope your day can be more mindful. .